Does repent simply mean to change our mind or is some action required?

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Comment by Pastor Moises Figueroa, DBS,Th.D on November 3, 2017 at 8:57am

Brother Mick,

I did presented you many verses about what I say, if you haven't entered deep on them is another thing.

Every true believer is guided by His Spirit to repentance, to be humble, to be pure. So, when we sin, as we all do, the tendency will be, if we are really saved, to ask forgiveness to God, that's the real relationship He is looking from us.

1Jn 3:1-3 ASV
(1)  Behold what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are. For this cause the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
(2)  Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
(3)  And every one that hath this hope set on him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Christ did not saved us and then leave us to our own struggles, He is the one who stand for His children helping them when they need Him. This is difficult to swallow because the human tendency is towards doing something to earn a reward or what we pay but in Christ it is not about us, is all about Him, and His sacrifice is complete. 

Yes, when a Christian sins, it is necessary the repentance, but not for salvation again (not judicial), but as a child that do something wrong before His father, very different scenario.

1Jn 2:1-3 ASV
(1)  My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
(2)  and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.
(3)  And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

His commandments are not to only repent. The true believer do the commandments He gave, and command us to do. Love God above all things, Love each others as I loved you, love your neighbor as you love yourself. If we, by the continuos filling of the Holy Spirit accomplish this commandments, then we are fulfilling Jesus demands, and that means we are His.

When we follow, by heart, the real commandments the Bible shows us as coming from Christ, there is no way we live a live of sin and has no remorse, by the contrary, living completely in grace lead us to be more like Jesus everyday by knowing He already paid for all our sins, that He is the only savior. And by doing what He really demanded from us lead us to recognize every day our need of Him.

God bless you.

Comment by Mick Alexander on November 2, 2017 at 4:51pm

Hello Moises,

Respectfully Moises, once again you are jumping around and avoiding the plain meaning of the verses I present to you. Also, previously you said that all our sins are forgiven but you still have not presented a verse to back that up ... and that is because there is no such verse. Previously you said that we will always repent but still you have not presented a verse to back that up ... and that is because there is no such verse.

You quoted from Eph. 1 and said, "Is here implied that we need to do something else after receiving Christ as a Savior?" My answer is no but I can give you plenty of verses where Grace is not mentioned - would that mean Grace is not required for salvation? There are many where faith is not mentioned - does that mean faith is not required? Many verses don't mention belief for salvation but does that mean we don't have to believe?

There is no question that we are saved by Grace but does that mean we ignore Jesus' commands? You are saying that obedience to Jesus' commands is working for salvation.

Moises, it all comes down to my believing you or believing what Jesus has very clearly and categorically said... continue in repentance or perish.

If you can show me how I have misinterpreted the likes of Luke 13:3 and Mark 1:15 then I will humbly apologise. This is not rocket science Moises; you understand tenses, voices and moods so it should be very straightforward for you.

We are commanded to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling". Not working for our salvation but working out what we already have, through a holy walk as Heb 12:14 says that "without holiness no one will see the Lord".

God bless,
Mick

Comment by Pastor Moises Figueroa, DBS,Th.D on November 2, 2017 at 4:19pm

Greetings Mick,

Then, the Bible contradict each self? I see your point, and I agree repentance is part of our daily living but not like we lost salvation and regain it again, the way I see it in the Bible is that our forgiveness is not judicial but as an adopted child of God, very different things.

Also, look how Paul put it, was he wrong?

Eph 1:1-14 ASV
(1)  Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to the saints that are at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus:
(2)  Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(3)  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ:
(4)  even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
(5)  having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
(6)  to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved:
(7)  in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
(8)  which he made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
(9)  making known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him
(10)  unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say,
(11)  in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will;
(12)  to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ:
(13)  in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,--in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
(14)  which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God's own possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Is here implied that we need to do something else after receiving Christ as a Savior?

Mick, our differences are in the way we see it but actually we are very close in our beliefs. I do not see in Scriptures that works is anymore the way we are saved but only by grace, and grace is a free gift we should accept and receive from the Father, not in our strength.

God bless you brother. 

Comment by Mick Alexander on November 1, 2017 at 3:33pm

Hello Moises,

First up Moises, not a verse says we are forgiven forever, not one; that is read into the text. Also, no verse says that a believer will always repent, that is also read into the text. Can you show me any verses that say these things?

I find time and again that those who believe they can't lose their salvation will jump from verse to verse rather than deal with the simple examples I give. I have given two crystal clear examples of possible salvation loss -

1) In John 3:16 Jesus said that we will perish is we don't continue in belief.

2) In Luke 13:3 Jesus said we will perish if we don't continue in repentance.

You say that Jesus is wasting His words as it won't happen. If that is true, then why does Jesus bother telling us these things?

John 15:6 says a branch, a believer, will be cut out and burned if the doesn't continue in the Vine. Simple stuff. This verse is third class conditional meaning that a branch may or may not continue in the Vine. If they do, fine, if they don't they are cut out and burned in the fire. It's very clear.

To me, it is too simple for words Moises. Saying that we will always repent or always believe or are always forgiven are statements without Scriptural basis. It's senseless for Jesus to make statements to the contrary if they are not possibilities.

God bless Moises,

Mick

Comment by Pastor Moises Figueroa, DBS,Th.D on November 1, 2017 at 9:05am

Col 1:9-23 ASV
(9)  For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray and make request for you, that ye may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,
(10)  to walk worthily of the Lord unto all pleasing, bearing fruit in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
(11)  strengthened with all power, according to the might of his glory, unto all patience and longsuffering with joy;
(12)  giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light;
(13)  who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love;
(14)  in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins:
(15)  who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
(16)  for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
(17)  and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
(18)  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
(19)  For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in him should all the fulness dwell;
(20)  and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens.
(21)  And you, being in time past alienated and enemies in your mind in your evil works,
(22)  yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and without blemish and unreproveable before him:
(23)  if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister.

Comment by Pastor Moises Figueroa, DBS,Th.D on November 1, 2017 at 9:02am

1Jn 3:1-3 ASV
(1)  Behold what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are. For this cause the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
(2)  Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
(3)  And every one that hath this hope set on him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Comment by Pastor Moises Figueroa, DBS,Th.D on November 1, 2017 at 9:01am

Hi Mick,

I believe we must live in repentance. But I also believe what the Bible say about a believer in Jesus Christ which is that we are forgiven forever. To me the repentance of a believer is not the same as an unbeliever. In 1 John 2 John wrote that a believer always have an Advocate with the Father, that's a promise for believers. Then later in the same chapter it say:

1Jn 2:2-6 ASV
(2)  and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.
(3)  And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4)  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
(5)  but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him:
(6)  he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.

It is clear that after we come to Christ as our Savior we are no longer in the Law, or anything that looks like we need to perform in order to keep our salvation. I also believe that a true believer will always repent when committing a sin because the Holy Spirit will rebuke us when we act wrongly.

There are many things in this text I quoted that gives us an understanding of our new position before God, Christ is our propitiation, meaning He is the one who carry our sins and make us clean. Even do we sin when we come to God for forgiveness is not like when a non believer comes before God. As children of God He forgives us like a father forgives his children. We are saved because of Christ, not because anything we do, or the way we do perform. A true believer will always come to his Father because the Holy Spirit guide us to do so. 

The point is my brother, I recommend you go out from those verses you quote all the time and make a deep throughout the whole Bible looking for the Word to speak to you about this and all things the Bible teach us. 

And, understand this, you are my brother does not matter we differ in certain points. That's above everything.

God bless you.

Comment by Mick Alexander on October 31, 2017 at 3:19pm

Hello Moises,

Let me put it as simply as I can. Jesus said we must continue in repentance otherwise we will perish. You say that we don't. Who is right?

God bless,
Mick

Comment by Pastor Moises Figueroa, DBS,Th.D on October 31, 2017 at 7:33am

Good morning brother Mick.

Honestly I do not see it as you do, this have been a debate for centuries and I know we are not to solve it with our arguments. 

I believe that after coming to Christ I have the security of everlasting salvation not because of something I do but because of what Jesus already did at the cross to redeem me after God. I know can see myself called just before God because of Jesus. I also see in Scriptures that I was adopted as a son of God, justified by Him, the verdict that was upon me was clear and paid by Him. After repentance I became a son and because of that when I sin now does not mean I lost salvation even do I need to ask forgiveness to Him, but not attached to a legal condemnation but as a son who failed his father, and I am promise forgiveness by His mercy. 

God bless you my brother. 

Comment by Mick Alexander on October 30, 2017 at 9:15pm

Hello Moises,

You said, "Then, is it your position we are the ones who have the key for our eternal salvation?". Not quite. I believe that the key is obedience to Jesus' commands. As I have said, in Mar. 1:15, "repent" and "believe" are Present Active Imperatives meaning we are commanded to continually repent and continually believe. If we follow Jesus' commands, we will be saved, if not then we perish. If you say we don't have to do these things then you are contradicting Jesus' direct commands.

Regarding the Holy Spirit, I agree with you as it is through His power that we are enabled to overcome and escape the world of sin through our repentance and believing in Jesus. 2 Pet. 1:3-4 say,"His divine power [the Holy Spirit] has given us everything we need for life and godliness ...  so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires." Through the Spirit we are empowered to live a godly life.

You said, "I do not see how He will take me His eternal salvation because I did not perform". If that is true then Jesus was mixed up when He said that we must (continuously) repent of perish. We either believe Jesus and follow His command or dismiss Him as getting things wrong.

All Jesus asks of us is to confess and repent of our sins and we will be saved.

Can you deny the clear meaning of Luke 13:3? It is our responsibility to continually confess and repent. Jesus commands us.

God bless Moises,
Mick

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